How to Talk to Shippers | Final Mile #40

Speaker 1: 0:19

Welcome back for another edition of the Final Mile. We're going to answer five listener questions today and again I'll give my final disclaimer that, regardless of the title or thumbnail of this video or podcast, we are answering five questions, so if we don't get to the one in the title or the thumbnail first, we will get to it. But please take a moment, support this channel by checking out the sponsors and the description box, and please head to our our website, freight three 60.net. Check out the freight broker basics course for a full training on how to get started and succeed in the industry, and all of our other content that's out there as well, and do the whole like, subscribe, share it, comment all that good stuff we appreciate it and to your point, if there's a question you want to hear or if you don't like our answer, feel free to complain in the comments, because it helps with engagement and we'll be happy to debate with you.

Speaker 2: 1:12

So have at it.

Speaker 1: 1:13

We've got a lot of. We've had a bunch of people assuming they're on the carrier or the dispatch side that don't like our answers on certain things. But you know we're trying to. We're trying to give objective feedback on a lot of this stuff and just share our experience and we'll do our best to continue to do that. Our first question came via email and he asked when I'm dealing with a shipper, how is the rate determined? Is it based off of the mileage, the amount of pallets, the amount of loads that they move per week, et cetera? So it's going to depend on it could be all of the above right. So we've got a lot there's.

Speaker 1: 1:56

I think we did a recent episode on pricing, like how to quote and price and the spot market. So we'll try to have this as a condensed answer. But you've got to really find out what is most important to your customer and that's typically going to determine the rate. Right, if they're price sensitive, then the rate's going to be impacted by by that right. Cheaper is going to be the most important thing. If it's a time sensitive thing, you've got flexibility in your rate. Well, I guess, to give a basic answer, because he did bring up mileage your customer might just say here's the rate, it's all in. Or here's our scheduled rate per mile with our fuel surcharge for the next three months. We're telling you what our rate is. So it really depends on the situation, but it could be all the above. What would you add to that, ben?

Speaker 2: 2:50

I'd say like, so, very simply, right, like your rate is going to be based on the things that they mentioned. Right. So it is going to be based on the mileage, mileage driven. Right. So you can use DAT to see what that whole lane. Right, call it Houston and New York. What is the average rate to pay to ship from there to their full truck load, 42,000 pounds in a van? Right Now you can also see your rate per mile.

Speaker 2: 3:16

So if, for instance, like your load is a little shorter or it doesn't have the same mileage, like you can reduce the rate by the rate per mile, right? So if Houston to Pittsburgh is $2.20 a mile but your load delivers 100 miles short of Pittsburgh, then like you can take the rate per mile and minus that times 100 miles to bring it down. So, real, specifically, like definitely mileage matters, right. Second thing is Fuel, specifically, like definitely mileage matters, right. Second thing is pallet count does and it doesn't meaning like, if it is a dedicated truck, meaning your customer is saying I am paying you for a truck, only my cargo goes in this truck, no, one other customer goes in this truck. Then like you're basically using that rate, right. Like there's not really up or down, really up or down.

Speaker 2: 4:05

Now, if your customer says I don't care if it's dedicated, we're okay with a partial, or they might even mistakenly call it LTL, but it's not really LTL, but they call it that because it's just not a full truckload. Now in that scenario, right, like again Houston to Pittsburgh, just for round numbers, say that rate was $3,000, but your customer says, like I only have 14 pallets and it's only 15 or 18,000 pounds, so it's literally half of that truckload. Right, if you are going to book a partial, you can charge your customer basically half of the truckload rate plus your margin. And hopefully you can find another customer that also needs their freight for the other half of the truck, they would pay half that rate. Customer that also needs their freight for the other half of the truck, they would pay half that rate. That is like specifically about the only time you really get into pallet count to change your rate is if it's in a partial load.

Speaker 2: 4:50

But for full truckload, that doesn't really matter at all. Most of to your point, you're going to have a rate that is suggested by your shipper. In most cases that's probably not exactly what they would be willing to pay if push come to shove, but like that's what they want to pay.

Speaker 1: 5:04

Yeah, correct.

Speaker 2: 5:08

And then you've got two choices right, like, hey, I can either work my best to try to get them a truck for what they're asking for Obviously it's got to be a little below so you can get paid for finding the truck and then I usually suggest you go back to the shipper and say, hey look, no, your target was 16. Shipper and say hey look, know, your target was 16, really did my best. Best I could get you was 1750. Would that work for you? In most of those case scenarios you can get the extra 100 bucks maybe, and be able to make it work for the shipper. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 5:32

The other factor too. Weight can definitely have an impact. Right Lighter loads burn less fuel. Heavier loads burn more fuel, so that's going to have a lesser impact, obviously, than your distance.

Speaker 2: 5:42

Distance, but that does volume's a big one too, right, like we were doing this yesterday. And I'll give you an example we have a shipper that ships potatoes in California and they're shipping spot loads up to I think it's like Kent Washington from LA, right? So those spot loads, right. They were paying somewhere around I think 16 or 1700. That load came in today. We need it shipped out today. We got to pay. What the going spot rate is was like $1,700. But they also said we will have 10 loads a day starting next week for three months. We want to pay like $1,600. We'll give you all 10 loads every day if you can get us closer to $1,600. Well, they're giving us more freight and they want a discount. That's the trade-off.

Speaker 2: 6:25

We do the same thing with the carriers and we're talking to carriers that are already interested in that lane because they either have customers or other lanes, and we're just like hey, look, I know you guys are probably at 17 or 18 for a day of or a spot load. Do you have any interest in some volume? And if they say yes, then the next question is like, look, I've got access to 10 loads a day for three months If that would work for you and you've got the capacity and want to take it on. This is where I would need us to be and you kind of work down from the spot load to the higher volumes, and the higher the volume, the more you can come down. The less the volume, the less.

Speaker 1: 7:00

For sure. That's exactly right. Volume discount, what it comes down to? Yep, all right, next up, what do I do if a shipper doesn't want to talk to me when I call them? I like this question because you're gonna get, I'm not gonna. I'm gonna generalize this because basically, any objection would fall into this category, right? Um, so I think what you have to do is determine what, like specifically, why don't they want to talk to you? If it's just that they're busy, well, yeah, if you call them at a bad time, then just call them at a later time. That's, that's what you would do.

Speaker 1: 7:34

But if you're getting an objection like oh, we don't use brokers or our customers, it's customer routed or FOB, they'll call it. Or FOB, they'll call it. Or they might say you know, we I don't know we're happy with our current provider, right? They just say something to try to get you off the phone.

Speaker 1: 7:52

I think this is like a normal part of prospecting, and what do you do is you want to find out more information?

Speaker 1: 7:59

You have to prospect. You got to ask some questions and, granted, the way in which you do this and the finesse of it could either work out and get you more information or, if you aren't very crafted at this skill, you could get hung up on and a lot of people early on will because they're reading off a script, they don't really know what they're talking about and it's just all part of the learning curve. But you want to find out more information. So if they, if they give you the quick oh, our freight's customer-routed all right, you don't just say okay, bye, say oh, that's great, you don't have to ever deal with any of the issues with truck file-outs and all that stuff, do you? And they might say well, every now and then, or they might keep bluffing you, right, but the reality is you've got to continue to ask questions. There's so many scenarios here we can't go through all of them. But ask questions, find out more information and try to uncover what's really going on. What do you think?

Speaker 2: 8:48

Yeah, you definitely need more information, right, and like I get an analogy or metaphor right Is think back to me when you were younger, in high school, and you had a crush on whoever it was in school, right, if they said no the first time, you asked, like, did you really quit? Or did you maybe try to make friends with their friends? Did you try to find activities that you had in common? Did you maybe go and suddenly get an interest in basket weaving because the girl or guy you liked loves doing that thing? Whatever that is right, like there are lots of ways that if you want something, you will try to find a way to get what. That is right ever since you're a little kid. Right, it's very much. It's very much the same here. Like, yeah, they're always going to play defense.

Speaker 2: 9:26

There's lots of people calling them to ask them to do business. That's what you should expect. You should expect them to be busy and not need to talk to you. It's our job as a sales professional to create that need or interest to even talk at first and then, once you can get them to start talking, build on that to hopefully work towards trust, to maybe find an opportunity somewhere in the future right. It is never going to be when you first reach them. It's also baby steps between somebody you've met and never talked to and getting working towards somewhere where you're able to actually connect in on any topic, to be able to just have a conversation before you're ever going to be able to do business on any topic. To be able to just have a conversation before you're ever going to be able to do business. That's the job of sales. That's why it pays so much, why so many people quit, because it's hard and it's emotionally taxing to do this right. Human beings do not like rejection. I mean for sure. Let's be honest, nobody does.

Speaker 1: 10:16

And I know a lot of our listeners are in offices with multiple people around them. So here's something to look at too. If you do sales meetings which you should periodically and you go through, let's say there's five of you on a sales team and everyone's doing the exact same, or roughly the same amount of activity phone calls, new leads, et cetera. If one person is getting this issue of no one wants to talk to me, but the others are having success, Well then you've got to look inward right, Because the issue is not the customers. The issue is probably some approach that you're doing, the things that you're saying. It could literally be the tone of your voice, or just you're an abrasive person Like. There's a lot, of, a lot of different factors here that could be caused by you, which the good thing is you can change those right Exactly.

Speaker 2: 11:06

And it's funny, right? I think more about that than probably anything I've learned in my entire adult life, which is human beings have a tendency to look outside of their responsibility for a cause that's upsetting them. Whatever it is, this isn't working. It's their fault, it's this fault, it's the market, it's the phone, it's the company, right? But rarely do we ever go.

Speaker 2: 11:26

What could I have done differently to maybe have had a different outcome? Because, to your point, that's the most important thing. If it is true that it's any of these other things but me, I can't fix them anyway, first of all, so what's the point of worrying about it? Second of all, it only makes me feel better for a minute and I'm back in the same place. You really want to spend time self-evaluating what you're saying, right? And it's so common in sales, right?

Speaker 2: 11:48

Every time I've ever had even somebody that worked for me or coached in the scenario where they're like I keep getting the same objection, right, I keep running into the same thing. I don't understand it, and we've pulled their calls to listen to them. They are saying the same thing before that objection every single time. That is cuing the person to say that they're literally leading the person they're calling into wanting to give them that objection. Right, and again, they think it's the other person and the reality is what they said is what initiated the objection in the first place. Right, the responsibility for all of this lies with ourselves and just looking at what we could do not even better, just differently to see if you get a different result, just try changing it and move left, maybe move right. If you've been moving right, say this instead of this, change it up and just look at what is happening in your results. I guarantee you you'll start to see which is working and which wasn't working.

Speaker 1: 12:43

Yeah, and I'll lastly add in on this we talked about recently I think it was 15% was the year-over-year decrease in revenue for freight brokers right? So whether the market's down or the market's up, if your business volumes are not commensurate with, or if they're not in line with what the market's doing, then it's an external factor. I've a lot of people lately are blaming the market. But if the market's down 15% from last year, but your numbers are cut in half, that is not the market. That's partially the market, but a lot of it is probably. It's harder to sell and the seasoned freight brokers that have been doing this for a while and are good at it they seasoned freight brokers that have been doing this for a while and are good at it they're the ones being able to take. In addition, they're probably growing right, like our my company. We are.

Speaker 2: 13:30

we had two record months last year in a down market right, you know it's people doing the fundamental things that we talk about on this show are still succeeding because you don't need the whole market to go up or down to win or lose Like you could have a tremendously profitable-.

Speaker 2: 13:43

All the price will get you where you need to be. Crumbs, right, crumbs of these things right. And again, like I also think that sales is a great place to learn this, like we did, we should do the show again on prospecting with a purpose. But, like, the other thing you learn doing this is that negative feeling when you get rejected that everybody wants to void altogether right. That negative feeling when you get rejected that everybody wants to void altogether right and thinks it's just a terrible thing, is also a positive because that's your feedback, that's what's telling you your body. Telling you you're uncomfortable with what you're hearing. Your body's picking up that you said something that made them say something that you shouldn't do again. That's why you're uncomfortable.

Speaker 2: 14:18

So it's an incredibly fast learning curve if you're listening and paying attention to what is happening right. Like that's what helps me get up to speed again when I haven't prospected for a while. I'll make 60 calls in a day and I can feel when I'm saying the wrong thing because I'm getting different responses. Like I can feel the tension is there. I can feel I'm not getting this like happy feeling from them or this connection. I'm like oh, I forgot, I didn't do this. Oh, I completely just didn't remember. I need to be saying this here, right, and again, that feedback is what helps you improve. So you want to be listening to whatever it is that is happening that you're not okay with and then look back at what you said right before that and see if you can just shift that, because that's how you improve on anything yeah, for sure there's uh like I think every person has some sort of like pet peeve or like ick that they can't stand.

Speaker 1: 15:11

And for me, like as a consumer, right, we'll kind of like turn the table here. As a consumer, I cannot stand a know-it-all like a sales rep that like just they may not even be trying to do this, but they're just a know-it-all and make it sound like they are way above me. I, literally I was on a call yesterday. Um, I won't say the company's name, but I did a, uh, a demo. Or I had a call with a tms provider for our brokerage. We have talked with. You know, I'm not looking to get a new TMS right now, but they had. They had cold, cold, stopped in the office at our corporate office. My assistant had a meeting with them and I hopped on this one 20 minutes into this. This like presentation, this like slide deck.

Speaker 1: 15:59

I'm messaging my assistant. I'm like what is this guy talking to him? Like what are we doing here? Like he hasn't asked a single question about our company. He doesn't even know what our needs are, what we do. He's just pitching all this stuff that's irrelevant to us. Like he's saying it in a way that he's an expert, so I pull him up on LinkedIn. He's been there for seven months. I'm like this guy was never in freight before that, but anyway. So like the know-it-all thing comes off as abrasive. I've seen that in sales and retail too. Or people just they try to sell something and what they don't know is that the consumer is like actually super knowledgeable about it, and oftentimes your customer might be super smart about it, which is why you should be asking them questions rather than shoving stuff down their throat.

Speaker 2: 16:41

Here's the other thing, too, and I'll give you like a real world personal example where I learned this about myself and it's related to what you just said. Right, my wife and I would be having conversations and she would say something that was like you know, she learned or that was interesting, that she wanted to share with me. Right, and I love hearing these things, right, but also my personality is that, like, if it's a topic that I'm also interested in, which is a good conversation, right, I'm really excited to share back with her what else I know about it. Because, like, that's just kind of like my MO, right, like I just want to help and I'm like, ah, that is fantastic, and did you hear this?

Speaker 2: 17:17

And it used to frustrate her and she told me this even recently like it felt like I was one upping or felt like in a sense that like I needed to show that I also knew and I don't maybe that is part of also my psych that I need to work on, but it was a good reminder that, even though I believed and felt I was being helpful to further both of our conversations so that we could both keep talking, it doesn't always feel the same way you think it is, to the other person, and that's what you've got to be listening for and hear the feedback and then adjust right, because now I'm aware, because again I do, I'm sure I do this in sales calls and in meetings and in negotiations. All the same, I probably do it with you right, like is I get used to doing this with you, and even in the show where we build on what we're talking about and move that's not always perceived the same way by different audiences and in different contexts, the one-upper mentality.

Speaker 1: 18:10

I used to have a buddy. I know we're going off tangent, but I used to have a buddy back in the day that we're not friends anymore. He got very annoying, but he was a one-upper. I would be like dude, did you hear about um? You know so-and-so, blah, blah, blah. He's like that's nothing.

Speaker 2: 18:25

My buddy.

Speaker 1: 18:25

Jimmy, let me tell you about anything twice and I'm like, okay, nevermind, uh, good stuff, all right. Next question how do you build and maintain successful relationships with carriers? Um, this is good, very good. What I would say is a lot of brokers tend to think that the priority number one is customer shipper right. The reality is, carriers are just as important, right, and oftentimes they're more important because, depending on the market like if you go back two, three years ago, you could get a lot of customers to talk to you because they had problems they couldn't get trucks Carriers were like the hot commodity.

Speaker 1: 19:05

So, but in any market, what I would always my quick tip and then I'll let you give your insight is anytime you talk to a carrier say they're calling on a posted load or something like that, even if they're not a fit, try to get some nugget of information out of them. Right, find out preferred lane, fleet size, equipment type, something right, store that have access to search it. And having that quick little 20, 30 second conversation can go a long way, because when you're the one that asks those questions, they're going to remember that and be like, oh, he actually cared to ask me what was important to me, even though he didn't have a load to give me. So that's my quick take on it.

Speaker 2: 19:43

I think the last point is what I always feel is like one of the most important right Ask more questions. If you were making statements, you aren't learning. And if you really want to know how to build a relationship with any person in any situation, you first need to know what is important to the other person, not just you. Right, and the only way to do that is to ask questions and for a carrier, there are lots of things that they're looking for that you can help them with. What other routes do you move? What other lanes are important to you?

Speaker 2: 20:09

One of my favorite questions to build better relationships with my carriers and a lot of my carriers, like they have become good friends. I text them, I talk to them, I talk about things outside of trucking, because we've built these types of relationships and it's finding out what else they're looking for and then going and prospecting it for them. Sometimes right, like I can't tell you how many of my carriers right now are telling me which lanes they need. They email them to me every day. I write them down and that helps me with my prospecting calls, because you know that line that you always laugh about. Like I've got trucks in the area. It's horseshit a lot of the time. But with my carriers telling me look, I would love to be working with this facility. I've been there years ago. We would love to be doing business with them. I will call that facility on behalf of the carrier and that's what I'm going to say.

Speaker 2: 20:57

Everyone goes how do you open a cold call? What am I going to say that's going to make them interested? I'm calling them with the truth. Hey, I'm reaching out. There's a carrier I've been working with for years. They're right up the road from you. They've got a yard, they've got a warehouse 20 units. I know you guys aren't looking for help right now, but I want to introduce myself because I'd love to be able to talk to you maybe throughout the year and see if anything opens up. That's all I got to say. Right, easy opening for me. It helps them tremendously and it's mutually beneficial for all three of us if the shipper decides to work. So there are a lot of simple things you can do that make your life easier and help you build a better relationship if you spend the time to ask these questions and not treat them like they're transactional throwaway resources that you could just find another whenever.

Speaker 1: 21:40

Absolutely. That's good, all right. Next up is LinkedIn sales navigator worth. I have never used Sales Navigator. I have used LinkedIn Premium and I have had friends that have used Sales Navigator and liked it. I think LinkedIn is a difference.

Speaker 2: 21:58

I didn't know. There was a premium that wasn't Sales Navigator.

Speaker 1: 22:01

Yeah, I think like Sales Navigator is more expensive, but either way, sales Navigator essentially adds CRM functionality into your LinkedIn. Yes, so I would say this LinkedIn is a great tool and I highly recommend you at a minimum, get like the premium version where you can see like three connections out, versus I think if you just have the free one, you're limited, because to build your network up and to be able to see where contacts of contacts of contacts work, where they live, their picture, their title, all that stuff, that is extremely, extremely beneficial. Yes, at a low cost, be able to get information about a contact at a prospective shipper. If you want to add CRM functionality in there, sales Navigator sounds like it's an option. I will say I think there's better CRMs to use and that's actually our next question we'll get to in a second. But yeah, I've never used Sales Navigator, but I definitely love the premium version. What's your experience with LinkedIn? And take on it.

Speaker 2: 23:07

I've used it a lot, and then I've used it not at all. In fact, I canceled it again two weeks ago. Here's where I think it's valuable right Like so for some industries it is, I think, more beneficial. Some ways it helps you sometimes connect with higher people in a company quicker. What you tend to not see on LinkedIn and where I think it's not valuable is, like most of shippers like in the points of contact we need to connect with procurement, or the people tendering loads, like boots on the ground dealing with trucks, like they're usually have a profile on LinkedIn, but not always. Second of all, like they're usually younger in their career, so they don't have as many connections. And, third of all, they're rarely networking to improve their job performance, Meaning like, if I am in the job where I deal with trucks all day, me meeting more connections on LinkedIn doesn't make me more valuable at my company, because they're not in sales, right, Like they're not in business development, so they're not as active I've seen on LinkedIn, meaning like there's not as much activity, but they're there.

Speaker 2: 24:10

And where I think it's really valuable. To your point, though, is if you're prospecting a company and you spoke to somebody, the first thing you should do is try to add them as a connection, Just very simply, short little message hey, it was nice connecting with you. Wish you the best If you need something. Here's another way to connect with me, Because every time you add one of them it's another touch point for one, Two, they're added to your network, which means their network can see you and them and that connection and it is one more place to create again another impression with maybe this potential person at this shipper.

Speaker 2: 24:41

So definitely valuable, but I think spamming through Sales Navigator because that's really what it is, and I've even used the automated tools years ago to do this and scale to see if it would work and it just rarely, if ever, produced the results in our industry. In other industries it can be very beneficial if you're doing business with other people that are also getting more business because they're more active on LinkedIn. In our world, we are the for lack of a better word the aggressors. We're the one reaching out trying to connect with shippers. Shippers are rarely reaching out to find brokers and carriers through LinkedIn.

Speaker 1: 25:18

Yeah, agreed. Oh man, there are some spammy LinkedIn stuff. One of the last things I had on LinkedIn love to see someone's work history, how long they've been there. Yeah, let you know, like if someone's really new in a position, you're going to treat that conversation differently than if they've been there for six years. Right, you're going to be kind of guiding them through a lot of yes.

Speaker 2: 25:37

And here's the other value. Right, the other value I think with LinkedIn and this is real close to like a company's Web sites for freight brokers Again, shippers aren't typically Googling freight brokers to find us, so it's like SEO and Web sites don't typically create large traffic of leads for any company of any size, because just the nature of how we work, right. But what almost always happens is if you call a prospect that you've not talked to and you have a good conversation, they're going to check to see if you are who you said you are right and where's the most logical place to see somebody professionally in their resume. They go right to LinkedIn. When I am prospecting all day consistently, my LinkedIn searches go up, go up significantly because everybody I talk to is looking at my LinkedIn profile to see a little bit more about me.

Speaker 2: 26:22

And to go one step further we talked about this on that other podcast this week on things you can do that are actually valuable content that help you get more customers. If you have a niche, like Steven, for example, right, like, say, it's in, you know, processed meat, or right, maybe it's in bulk, whatever, right, if you're posting relevant content that is original to you, like an original thought. That helps this prospect get a window into you, which is valuable, and also, if they see that you're posting things that are interesting to them, they know you're really tied into this niche. That helps build trust. So, like I am very careful in how I curate what my LinkedIn profile looks like based on what I'm doing, because I know the people I'm reaching out to are looking back at it to see more about me, and I think that is something that you should be aware of when you're just doing any type of business development and I think that is something that you should be aware of when you're just doing any type of business development.

Speaker 1: 27:16

Absolutely, I got to get on LinkedIn more often, man, I haven't. I probably got like 50 inbox messages right now, but I'll get on there, all right. Our last question, speaking of CRMs. Someone asked what CRM systems are the best for freight brokers. My generic answer is going to be that they all do pretty much the same thing and take some demos, figure out which one is the most user-friendly to you. So I'll name a couple, right Like Salesforce, hubspot, zoho, pipedrive, shipper, crm from Freight Caviariar. That's a specific one to freight brokers, and your TMS might have a CRM built into it as well.

Speaker 1: 28:01

But my recommendation is the things that are important to you as a freight broker, make sure that you can easily track them, and the way that you like to take calls, write down notes, make sure you can do that very easily. So you should be able to add custom fields. You should be able to change your view, customize it so you're seeing the relevant information for you. Cost is a big thing as well. Are you paying for something that has way more stuff than you need, or is there a cheaper option that might be a better fit for you, but I personally use HubSpot. I have for a number of years option that might be a better fit for you, but I personally use HubSpot. I have for a number of years. You and I have taken a look at Shipper CRM and its beta version and I know Paul's doing good stuff with that and should be doing more this year. What do you think? I think that's similar.

Speaker 2: 28:44

The only things I would add, like I think it's important to be able to integrate your email with your CRM. I think that's very important because business is happening two ways email and phone. And the thing that I feel is really important is if I'm going to talk to Nate as my prospect, when I pull his contact card up in HubSpot, I don't want to just see my notes from my calls with him. I want to see every email he's ever sent me that I might have missed or just forgot about. So it's top of mind while I'm talking to you. The thing that gets really difficult is mind. While I'm talking to you, the thing that gets really difficult is like if I'm talking to you and I got to put your email address in my outlook, see what you've emailed me, then look back here at what my notes were. Like it gets very disjointed.

Speaker 2: 29:23

So that I think is really important as well, as it's really more how you use the tool and the cost right. Like you want to be able to adjust the fields to know where each prospect is in their stage from. I've never talked to them. I've talked to them to. We're bidding to their customer. That's your final right.

Speaker 2: 29:41

And then you also want a qualitative, like hot, medium or cold, so you know throughout the year, like who really you want to make sure you're still touching frequently, who less frequently and the most infrequently. And then, finally, the most important aspect that I use is, though, making sure you set your follow-up calls when you finish this call, because now what you're doing is creating your own schedule in the future that you don't have to worry about. It's easier to do when you're in the moment to try to think about it later, and it saves tremendous time sorting through leads every day, deciding who you're going to call, create a list, work your all the way through it, schedule every follow-up as soon as you mark whether that call was no answered, or notes for a successful call when you'll be calling them back, and as you do this, it snowballs and you've created your schedule into the future.

Speaker 1: 30:27

No point in paying for something that you're not going to actually use effectively. So For sure, sweet, all right. Great questions, keep sending them our way.

Speaker 2: 30:36

Final thoughts, mr Kowalski whether you believe you can or believe you can't, you're right and until next time go bills.