Freight Collections: How to Protect Cash, Enforce Liens, and Survive Slow Pay | Episode 314

SPEAKER_00: 0:19

Welcome back. It's another episode of the Freight360 podcast. We've got some special guests with us today. We'll get to in just uh just a moment here. We're really excited for this episode. Uh, if you're brand new here, you caught us for a fun one, but make sure to check out all the other hundreds of episodes and uh shorter form educational videos, blogs, etc. You'll find them at freight360.net. You'll find them on YouTube and shared across various social platforms. If you're looking for an educational option for your team or for yourself, you can also check out the Freight Broker Basics course, which is on our website. And while you're on the website or on YouTube, you can leave us comments, send us a message. We love to answer those questions on our final miles segment that drops every Tuesday, where all we do is answer questions from our audience. So uh Ben, how's things going in Florida today?

SPEAKER_04: 1:11

Nice, man. Weather's starting to get cooler. It's enjoyable outside of summer, man.

SPEAKER_00: 1:16

It was like 48 degrees when I got my son on the bus this morning. So but anyway, we got some guests here. I want to get an intro. I want to get a quick intro. Uh, we've got Christina Belleval and Janie May with us. So, Christina, real quick, for those that uh don't know you, um, quick intro on who you are, and we'll get more into your backstory in a little bit here.

SPEAKER_05: 1:39

Yes, thank you, Nate. My name is Christina Belaval. I am an attorney in Texas. I am an animating partner in Freight Collection Solutions Law Group, and I dedicate myself to collecting freight for brokers, carriers, and uh factoring companies.

SPEAKER_00: 1:54

Awesome. A subject matter expert. Can't wait to pick your brain. All right, Janie, quick intro for you.

SPEAKER_02: 2:01

Hi, Nate. Uh I'm Janie Howerton. I am a uh business consultant. I work with businesses to create financial clarity. I've worked with worked in the uh freight and uh collections industry for more than 20 years. Again, helping businesses create financial clarity by understanding their numbers, uh identifying where there may be opportunities to um increase their cash flow.

SPEAKER_00: 2:30

Awesome. Well, we appreciate both of you being on here. When whenever Ben and I have any guests come on our show, um, we're very, very particular with the uh the quality and level of knowledge and expertise that folks have. And you you both are a great fit for it. So we we appreciate you guys joining us. Um Ben, it's funny, like a lot of the times the content we talk about on our show is about like you know, how to grow and get customers and build your carrier network. It's a lot of tactical things um in the trenches of the day-to-day operations. Uh, but then if you pan out and you look at what does the TIA have in their curriculum for teaching their new brokers, that we also coach that. And um, financial management is one of the main lessons that that is taught in that in that uh class. And we typically start that class off, and sometimes it's business owners that are in there, sometimes it's uh brand new entrepreneurs. And we talk about the kind of the unseen or unthought of part of of brokerage is uh the fact that we we operate like a bank, right? I mean, we're yes, we're finding capacity of trucks for our our shipping customers, and we're um helping keep continue to load our partner carriers with our customers' freight. But beyond all of that, the way the money flows, and sometimes, and we'll we'll get into it here with with you guys, sometimes when it doesn't flow and you have to try and go chase it down, that can really uh tank a business if you don't have a good pulse read on the financial well-being of your of your organization. And you know, if things go wrong, what do you do? How can you prevent those? We're gonna break all that down uh today. Ben, anything you want to add in on the front end here?

SPEAKER_04: 4:12

Just that I think it's super relevant and most often overlooked, right? Everyone always wants to talk about growth, more business, more sales, but rarely do I think business owners or even operators spend enough time looking at not just how the money flows, when does it flow and when doesn't it flow, right? And where and what is happening on that side of things because it doesn't really help you if it's like the analogy I use like isn't it's like fishing. Okay, you can catch a bunch of fish, but if you got a hole in your boat and the fish you just caught are swimming out as you're adding them to it, like you're not making a lot of progress. And I think why this is also the timing is relevant is like we've been in a down market for the longest period ever. And I think one of the silver linings of just all economic cycles is when they're at the bottom, it forces businesses to do more of this, which is whether it's you know, tightening the belt, looking at your accounts receivable, but like we really should be doing this more, right? And businesses really will overlook these things when it's just as important collecting the money you earn as it is actually earning the money. And again, it's really often overlooked, both the timing and if you're getting paid on the work you've already done. So we had a great conversation, all four of us, before the recording. So I'm really anxious to kind of put this all together because I think it's gonna be a really engaging and really valuable topic to kind of cover today.

SPEAKER_00: 5:39

Yeah. So, Christina, I wanna, I wanna ru get I want to start off with uh kind of get into your story and your company freight collection solutions. So um how does one find themselves in uh in a career path uh such as freight debt collections? And I know you you've got the law background, and and by the way, if you guys are listening and aren't watching, you've got to go over to YouTube and check out the the cowskin on her wall behind her because she's a Texan. So Christina, get it kind of get us up to speed. How do you end up where you are?

SPEAKER_05: 6:10

Well, it's a funny story. I I practice law in Puerto Rico uh originally. I used to represent banks uh in lender liability cases, and I moved uh to Texas in 2016. Uh I became licensed to practice law and I but I continued to work with the banks in Puerto Rico. Uh but then Maria came and all the courts shut down, all the the banks weren't doing anything. So I like I gotta find myself a job in Texas. And there was a a small firm that was dedicated to trucking companies, and they did mostly personal injury and they told me, look, we want to create a collections uh section in our firm. Uh, would you like to run it? I'm like, Yes. I used to work for banks. Something that I can do. And and I looked at the issue, and I'm like, there's multiple ways that you can collect here uh those on-paid freight charges. That's usually not the case when you collect money. I'm like, yeah, I will do it. And I since then, that's all I do.

SPEAKER_04: 7:24

It's it's so funny because it's like almost, I feel like Nate, almost everyone we've ever met or even talked to kind of like inadvertently ends up in our industry. Like kind of yeah, like I don't really know of anybody that's like in high school or in college. It's like, this is where I'm going. Like like I started in banking too, and it's like you just kind of it finds you in this weird, strange way where it's like everyone's story has that kind of like aspect to it, I guess.

SPEAKER_00: 7:51

So some of the some of the stats, right, over your career, and I'm just going off of notes I've got here, so I feel free and and polish them up and give more some details, but um over 20 I'm seeing 23 million dollars recovered. So can you talk a little bit about the you know, I guess the range of what a collection size could look like for a factoring company or for a freight broker or motor carrier? Are these one-offs? Is it usually, hey, we've got a dozen uh uncollected invoices? How do you how do you get up to over$20 million like that?

SPEAKER_05: 9:21

So it's it's been eight years now that I've been doing this. So that's that's my track record since I began. Uh, but obviously the factoring companies have more volume. So when you go after the brokers, you're going with multiple carriers. I also represent uh collections company locally here in Texas, Baxter Bailey. So they also come uh with multiple carriers against one broker. Uh so that would increase the amount of liability. But we also do like individual collections, smaller claims, uh if the if it's necessary for our clients, like we we will go collect whatever the client needs.

SPEAKER_00: 10:02

Gotcha. And I I feel like there's a uh I've talked to people in the past, just other brokerage owners, and I'm curious your thought on that. Some of them are like, you know, the you know, this company owes us 20 grand, but you know, we're gonna end up spending 50 grand to get 20 grand. Is there any is there any truth to that or is it actually a simpler process than to as far as collection goes?

SPEAKER_05: 10:26

So I I have two modes of operation. I can do a contingency and we cap our rates at 33% or hourly. And it depends on the client because my my experience is that when you're factoring and you have like larger claims, you're better off with the hourly rate because if not, you're gonna lose 33%, even if we're doing all the work and all the expenses, we're carrying them. You it's not gonna get to that number.

SPEAKER_00: 10:59

So yeah, so it probably just comes down to what makes the most business sense which way you want to go with it, right?

SPEAKER_05: 11:03

Yeah, and I'm for both.

SPEAKER_00: 11:05

Yeah. Nice. All right, Janie. Um, you've got a background in finance, in uh trucking. Give us a give us the story here.

SPEAKER_02: 11:18

So I didn't start in banking, um, but I I I've seen firsthand, and when I say firsthand, I'm talking about myself. I've seen how a company can be brought to its knees, one by not understanding um its numbers, and two, um not collecting and being able to keep your business running. And I'm I'm reminded of of and one of my what I call my biggest failures. My grandmother would say that it's not a failure if you learned from it. Uh, I definitely did learn. And for me, it was really not understanding my financials, what they were telling me. And it took somebody coming into the company, uh, I never forget, he asked me to let him take a look at my my PL. I kept really good records, but didn't understand it. And he looked at my PL and he said, Well, you're bringing in money. He says, But one, you're you're you're not getting well, he didn't see it from my PL. The first thing he said was, um, your people aren't productive. And I remember sitting there going, How does he know that? But I didn't ask. And he looked at my balance sheet and he says, You got all this money sitting here. What's the problem? And again, I wouldn't ask how he knew that, but that sent me on a journey to understand more about what's the whole business behind running a business. And that's why I do what I do today, because we can be very passionate about what we do. There are so many business owners that I've worked with over the years who are very passionate about what they do. They feel like they've been called to do it or that's their purpose. But when we start talking about the business behind running a business, it's a whole different kettle of fish. And I've learned that that's really that weak link, especially in the trucking industry. Um, there are hundreds of thousands, even millions of dollars sitting on the balance sheet where there are folks think, oh, well, we're never gonna collect that money. But it's money that they've earned. So why not go after it? And that's what I feel makes my partnership with Christina just that much more um awesome because you know, I teach that financial clarity side and understanding, you know, what processes you need to have in place, uh, how you go after it, and then having uh uh someone like Christina that can actually go after it once you've reached that point where you know you can't go any further.

SPEAKER_00: 14:18

You brought up a couple of great points there. And Ben, one of the things that you and I have talked about uh ongoing throughout our content over the years is that you know everybody has a blind spot. Um, we all have strengths and weaknesses, and you might be the greatest salesman, in your opinion, when it comes to the freight brokerage industry. That doesn't mean you're gonna be the best when it comes to running a business or understanding the financial aspects of your business. That's why some of the most successful companies, if it's a a great salesperson that starts it, you might find that they understand their weakness and and their lack of knowledge in the financial space, and there's a huge need to hire somebody that can do that job for them because that's not necessarily their strength. Um, and also you might find that someone that is really great at business but struggles at sales has to hire sales managers and um, you know, you basically have to fill in the gaps of of where your business, you know, you know where your strengths are, but you have to fill in the gaps of where you have areas for improvement. So um it's great to see the two of you uh, you know, have that synergy and it it's really collaborative. So um I wanna I wanna get into the collections side here. So, Christina, can you take us through um and you know, the average listener, and you know, myself and Ben, we sit in this in this job day in and day out, right? We're we're we come from the brokerage um background, but we've you know we've got folks that are carriers involved with factoring companies as well in our audience. So and we all kind of fall into the same boat of if there's money due to us, um, the questions that commonly come up are how do I call how do I go to a collections person? When do I go to a collections um organization? Um, what requirements do I have to be able to turn up, like what kind of documentation do I need to have? So can you kind of take us through like the the high level on um you know invoice isn't uh paid? Um, where do we go from here? What does that process look like?

SPEAKER_05: 16:23

Yeah, uh being a collector is it's like an art. Uh you have to be sort of like a salesperson, but also be good in terms of aggressiveness and being good with your numbers, uh accounting type person. Uh and when you speak with your customer, you have to know uh if that person is gonna pay. You have to know your customer. And if you think that the person is avoiding you, he's promising payments and they're they're not uh complying with their their agreed terms. Uh you have to second guess if that person's gonna pay. Because you want to save the customer relation. Uh but if you're not gonna if they're not gonna pay, it's it's time to send it to someone else that's gonna be more aggressive. I I'm not here to tell you that I'm I'm going to save that customer relationship because when you send it out to me, I'm gonna be very aggressive and I'm gonna get you paid. So it's it's an issue of knowing your customer, and if your customer isn't paying, then it's time to give it to someone else that's gonna be more aggressive and it's gonna get I'm gonna get you paid.

SPEAKER_04: 17:30

Well, and I think that's a really good point, right? The way I always kind of looked at it, and when Nate and I talk about this from like financial education standpoint, is like one, watching your days to pay, right? Is your customer starting to pay slower? Is there something happening? Because like in our industry, if we're doing business with any company, right, like they're not in the transportation business, they are in the produce business, or they're in the sporting goods business, or they're in the steel business, right? So if they're not, if your customer isn't getting paid by their customers, right? And their cash flow is decreasing, right? And they have to make decisions with less money than the bills that are due from their point of view, right? Like they're gonna pay to keep the lights on the building, they're gonna pay their salaries, they're gonna pay to make sure they have raw materials for their employees to keep producing whatever it is that they make, right? And once you go all the way down the list of every one of those bills that that shipper has, we're like the last one on the list, right? Because usually they have choices of, okay, well, if I just don't have enough money and I don't pay this trucking company or this broker, there's another broker or another carrier that will at least run my freight today. So we can at least keep operating until hopefully our customers pay us the money we're owed, right? And the first is like, are you aware that they're starting to pay you slower? Because I think the first question is like, not will they pay, but can they pay, right? And are they choosing not to pay you to pay someone else? And at which point does that become so bad that they cannot pay you? And then it's not just will not pay you, but don't have the ability to, and now you're in a bad position where it's much more difficult, right? So, like when you're kind of talking, whether, you know, Janie, you're looking at a trucking company's books or brokerage, like, do you guys use like rules of thumb where it's like, okay, this invoice is aged beyond what it's certain what it typically does where you start this process or advise the customers to start like looking for these avenues? How do you kind of draw that line for like if I'm a trucking company owner, how do I look at one invoice for certain customers versus another one and go, okay, now it's time to start talking with folks like you?

SPEAKER_02: 19:40

Right. That's good. And as a matter of fact, I believe that what most carry what what most trucking companies should do is make AR a part of their discussions every week. I remember one company in particular, true story, um, I was working with their accounts receivable, and I noticed that the young lady was more concerned with getting the invoices together so that she could send it over to the factoring company and uh you know get get those invoices factored. But I was looking at the aging, one, she didn't know what that was. Once I explained it to her, she says, Well, we we probably won't get paid for those. It was$1.2 million. Wow. Right. And most of them were over 120 days old. I I'd say all of them, right? Um once I brought it to the owner's attention, then it became part of a weekly discussion. How are we gonna get this money? Um, who's gonna help us go after it? But to answer your question more directly, what they should do is every single week, when you're having your operations meetings or your finance meetings, that needs to be a part of the discussion. Once that invoice hits 30 days, who's making a phone call? Who's contacting that client to uh one make certain they got the invoice? That's that's one of the first things we do, and it's very customer friendly. Did you did you receive it? Do you have any questions? Um, no, no questions. Okay, when can we expect payment? Right? And then you make a note there should be some kind of tracking system in place to ensure that one, you made the phone call. If they had questions, you answered the questions. If they say they didn't receive it, then you send them the invoice again with the expectation that we're going to have a payment within X number of days if you don't give us a call back with questions. Um and then there should be some kind of notes so that when we meet again uh as a team, we can talk through who we contacted, what was the outcome, and how much have we collected. So that it really starts there and identifying one, if it's going over your threshold, whether it be 30 days, 45 days, or or or upon receipt.

SPEAKER_04: 22:22

Yeah, I think that's go ahead, Nate.

SPEAKER_00: 22:24

I was gonna say there's a lot to unpack there. And I just want to hit on a couple things of best practices. So, number one, one of the things that um we do at my company is that every every rep, right, that is an account manager will say, right, um, they get an aging report every single week. And oftentimes when someone's new to the company and they'll say, Hey, what is an aging report? I'm glad they asked me because if you've never worked in an organization where you're part of that uh discussion, you you might have never heard what the term aging means. That just means it's literally the age of the invoice. How old is it, right? Is it 10 days' age, which means it was sent 10 days ago, or is it 120? So it's four months old. Um, so we get it in front of our reps every single week. And then, Janie, to your point, I hope I fully agree with you. Those weekly meetings where you're talking about AR is extremely important. And you'll tend to know like the same customers will pop up as like your discussion points in a lot of these meetings. Those are your problem children, right? And you have to kind of decide um which ones you want to focus on. And um, hey, is this one giving us the same runaround, you know, three times in the past where they tell us the checks in the mail and it got lost, or um, they're just waiting out a vendor payment to them and we're gonna be the first one they're gonna cut a check to. You you kind of get to know um who who you can believe and who you've got to put pressure on. Um, and I think to to Christina's point earlier, knowing your customer, part of understanding and knowing that relationship is knowing if someone's gonna be a straight shooter with you or if they're gonna beat around the bush. And depending on you know what kind of clarity you get from that is likely gonna determine what direction you go in, right? Are we gonna keep this internal? Um, and to Janie's point, make the calls, put notes down, have follow-ups, or do we have to go the external route and have someone with a big muscle get in there? Because um preserving the customer relationship is a very fine line. And if you go about it the wrong way, you could there could be a total misunderstanding. And if you're like this, this invoice is 30 days past due, I'm gonna I'm calling them yelling at them, they're gonna be like, dude, we never got your invoice. And you realize that your your accounting team screwed it up, right? And that sent it to the wrong email address or didn't upload it into their system or whatever the case might be. A lot of times we find that just good communication can can solve a lot of the problems and prevent a lot of the headaches. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04: 24:52

I wanted to hit on two or three things too, to recap. Because again, like Nate said, there was a lot in what you just said, meaning, like, the first thing I do with any client or any brokerage I've worked with is like, I literally go to the aging report and that's exactly where I start. And we do the same thing. Like I look at it every week, right? And then you got to ask questions, right? Because if you're a freight brokerage, a lot of the brokers that are earning, right, or operating, and even the owners, they look at their TMS and go, like, well, this is what we generated in profit every week. But then they look at the bank account and they're like, but why don't we have enough money? And like bridging that gap is like you got to work backwards all the way through because maybe you're running a lot of freight and you're not getting the PODs to invoice when you should, right? Maybe it's all the way back there. Maybe you're getting them in time and sending them out. Maybe to your other point, maybe you're not invoicing your customers correctly. Like I've gotten into brokerages and clients where they're like, this customer's 60 days past due, and then we get on the call with the customer, they're like, you didn't do three of the required invoicing procedures. So like we didn't get them, they weren't done right, and then the clock starts again right from day one. That can be an issue, right? And just literally working your way back through and seeing how is the money generating? Like, what is the cash flow conversion cycle? Not just, hey, we ran a load, we generated profit on the books, but like, how long did you wait to invoice? How long did it then take the customer to pay? And I think the really important point you made, which is really overlooked, is like you need a system to track what you are saying when you're reaching out, what the response is, because it's not that you just necessarily escalate the tone, but like the first approach, and Nate and I always talk about this, is like it should just be like, hey, just wanted to make sure you got it. Do you have any questions? Right. Right. Finding out if that or you did something incorrect. Then the next is like, okay, can we get an update on this? Now, if another week or two weeks passes and you get the same answer, if you didn't look and see what the response was and what you asked about the first time, I've seen scenarios where accounting people on the collection side are just like, oh, we just sent another email. They'll just send the same email every week going, here's the invoice. And they're like, Yeah, we've been doing this for six months now, and um, we don't know. We're like, Well, okay, well, maybe make a phone call, right? Maybe escalate to do a little bit more to get some more information, but nobody's tracking that, nobody's looking at that. There is no central system to even have an idea of what you are doing versus what you should be doing. So I think those are really good best practices for any business, but for sure in ours.

SPEAKER_02: 28:44

That's right.

SPEAKER_05: 28:45

And everybody's I would also uh like to note that uh you have to know where you're servicing because if you have, for example, uh construction sites, you have the right to file mechanics lien as a as a carrier. Uh and those have very small windows to file those pre-lean notices. And you can't let the AR just sit there and not send those pre-lean notices because then you you lose your right to file that that lien.

SPEAKER_04: 29:17

Well, I think that's a good segue. And I want you to kind of unpack for everybody what a mechanics lien is, or even we can just start with like what a lien is and how much of a window you have, because there's the first question of can they pay or will they pay? But then the other question is like, what leverage do you have to make them pay you money that you're owed, which is typically a lien or other scenarios. So, like, can you walk through the basics of like what is a lien for somebody out there? How do you guys use that to help them get paid?

SPEAKER_05: 29:46

Okay. So most of your listeners have factoring companies, they are secured creditors. So a lien makes you a secure creditor. If that debtor files for bankruptcy, you're not going to be on the unsecured creditor side, which usually gets paid pennies on the dollar. You're gonna be on the secured creditor side and you're likely going to collect all or most of what it's owed. Uh so you have a preferential treatment as creditor, just having the right to a lien. Uh motor carriers have uh also lien rights over the products that they haul. If you if you surrender that to the consignee, you lose that lien right. But that's what gives margin to having the right to collect against the consignee if the broker doesn't pay, because you lost that lien right, but the law recognizes the right of the carrier to go for those unpaid freight charges against the shipper and the consignee. So that's even if you lost that lien, you have the right to collect. Uh, it's a matter of equity that the force can recognize.

SPEAKER_04: 30:53

The thing that I kind of want to unpack for some listeners out there is like if you think of a lien, I'm like, I feel like the easiest, most recognizable example is like a house, right? So I buy a house with a loan from the bank. The bank is gonna put a lien on that house, which means if I sell the house, nobody can get the deed for my house until the lien is satisfied, meaning that bank gets paid the money they gave me to buy the house before Nate can take possession of the house, right? Like it's paperwork that basically gets filed that says, like, you have a right to this asset, right? If or when something goes wrong, right? And so like a mechanic's lien is typically like on a construction site, which means like that property can't change hands or have anything done with it until those are satisfied. For factoring companies, it's a UCC one against all of your receivables, which is kind of another topic, but like that's how the factoring companies operate. But the other one you pointed out is like if a motor carrier moves freight for a shipper, right? Like they have rights because that shipper benefited from the service the carrier provided. So do you want to kind of just explain to everybody like how that why? Because that one's really important, right? Because lots of people think, oh, there was a broker in the middle, or maybe two brokers in the middle with a co-brokerage and a truck move the freight, or there was fraud and the truck that was supposed to move it wasn't it. But at the end of the day, right, the basics is I was taught was that like there's a shipper, there's a beneficial cargo owner that owns those goods. Any carrier that moves those cargo. Move that cargo, the people that own the cargo benefited from it getting moved from point A to point B. So regardless of the paperwork or who was in between in the middle of the transactions, the company that actually moved it and the company that benefited, right? Like their security basically. Do you want to kind of like unpack why that matters for your clients?

SPEAKER_05: 32:47

So yes. So uh as I said, the court system does recognize this beneficial right to motor carriers for their unpaid freight charges. So it doesn't matter who hired the carrier or if there's like multiple brokers in the middle or double brokered loads. Uh the bill lading is the contract between the shipper and the carrier. So the carrier that hauled the load has a right to go against that shipper. And as I said before, the right to the consign knee, that's inequity. That is because I lost my lien rights for the against that consign knee. The courts recognize that they have the right to collect against that consign knee if the intermediary doesn't pay. And there's also double payment liability. Even if that shipper or consign knee paid someone in the middle, whoever they hired, and that person paid the other person that they hired, but they weren't the ones that hauled the load, they still have to pay. So that is great for me as an attorney for freight collections because I have multiple avenues to collect from. And for my clients, because they have multiple areas of recovery. You don't recover twice. The amount that you get is is the unpaid freight charges. But you can go against multiple people.

SPEAKER_04: 34:07

And this one is really common. I would say it's probably the most common one we see kind of in practice, which is okay, a customer of mine gives me a load, right? And I book a carrier, right? And my customer pays me, but the carrier I booked didn't actually haul the freight. I thought they did. They hired another motor carrier unlicensed. Like they either pretended to be a broker or they just gave this load from one trucking company to another trucking company, right? And that company that moved the freight, I'm unaware of. I thought the company I hired is the one that moved it, right? My customer pays me. I pay the carrier that I thought hauled it because they gave me a POD. But then 45 days later, you get an email where this carrier says, Hey, I'm actually the one that moved that load for you last month and I didn't get paid. We look at our books and go, well, that's not the trucking company that we hired or that sent us the POD or that we paid, right? And then this trucking company says, Well, we moved the freight. Here is our POD. We were never paid, right? They will often reach back out to the shipper first, actually, and say, Hey, I moved this load for you on this date and didn't get paid. My customer then goes and looks at their system and says, I hired Ben's company to broker this, right? So Ben, you deal with it, right? We paid you, the freight was moved, it was delivered, and we paid you. Now we're in this position where, like, okay, well, we got paid and we paid a company, but clearly the company that performed the work did not get paid. What we typically do is ask for like ELD records to verify that the carrier that's saying they moved the freight did move it and go, okay, well, this carrier clearly did move it, right? We've at least crossed that bridge. Then the next conversation comes up of like, okay, as a brokerage owner, right, we're like, we're in this position of like, well, we already paid the money out. We can't get that money back, but now the carrier that performed the work is telling us we need to pay them, right? And to your point, that's I think the multiple avenues of recovery, right? Because your client is the motor carrier that didn't get paid. And now we're basically up with a choice of like, we as the brokerage can now pay your client and then the problem solved, but we're out the money that we paid to the company that didn't do it. If we don't pay your client, that trucking company, you have the right or ability to go at me, the broker, and at the shipper. Just the shipper, right? Just the shipper. So when you go right at my customer and say, Well, you need to pay this trucking company, my customer is basically gonna give me a choice. Well, this was your mistake. You didn't or weren't aware of who actually moved the freight. So you either pay this motor carrier or we're done doing business with you. So in practice, what we typically see is the brokerage ends up paying your client even though they don't have the, I would say, the ability to come after me, but we're gonna do it because we were responsible in some in some aspect that this occurred and there was fraud with the company we hired, even though we did our due diligence. But the choice is hey, do we lose this customer or do we make it right and move forward is kind of what we see, I guess, most in practice, right?

SPEAKER_05: 37:21

Exactly. And it's it's good to mention also that that carrier that double brokered the load, they're in violation of the law. You if you're a motor carrier and you don't have brokerage authority, you cannot give that load to anyone else. And the law, which is MAP 21, imposes uh civil penalties and personal liability on the owner of that company. So it's it is a very bad slope to go and double broker loads. Like carriers have to be careful, and that's that's something that they should not do. Unfortunately, it is rampant in the industry, but it it it there are ways to get those people out of business.

SPEAKER_00: 38:10

So I'm curious. Um let's let's look at a non-fraudulent scenario, right? And I've had plenty of these over the years where we you know we do our proper credit vetting, customer looks good, and you know, over time we're building up a larger and larger credit line for them. And then we start to notice payments are coming in slower. There might be a month where we get no payments, and then they kind of get caught up the next month, and eventually we get to a point where we've frozen the credit, they've customers stopped paying us, we know that they're you know having financial troubles, their credit report is reflecting that. Um, I've had them upwards of of a quarter million dollars of unpaid invoices that have um you know end up you know 180 or more days past due. What does that situation look like? So whether you're a broker or a carrier or factory company for that matter, when you've got something of that of that size, what is the um what does the process look like?

SPEAKER_05: 39:20

Well, once you decide that you are not going to do business with that customer and you're good to go to collections, then the case comes to me and my paralegals go into all those invoices and extract all the liable parties. So it's not only the shipper that did not pay you, we're going after the con the consumes, which are their customers in turn. So they're gonna get pressure from all their customers as to why are you not paying a and we start we send out demand letters to all of their customers and then we call them. We have a session of collection calls, it'll go uh in about a month we're calling, and if they don't pay all of it, we'll go against against them in court against all of them.

SPEAKER_00: 40:10

So what can you can you get down to the just out of curiosity, the legal side of it, like you say go to court, what does that sound like? Is there you know what kind of you documentation is in are you filing to go to court, etc.?

SPEAKER_05: 40:25

You file a petition, you serve process on them, like a personal process server against all of these people. Uh and sometimes my complaints have 20, 50 defendants, and they're all included there, uh because they're all related to that customer of yours that did not pay. So it's that customer and their customers.

SPEAKER_04: 40:48

So I have a question too. You said something uh when you just a moment ago, right, of the decision at which you are going to reach out to your firm is we have decided not to do business with this customer anymore, right? Is that the question that they basically, as the business owner, should be thinking about? Is like, okay, this is now at a point where we are no longer gonna do business with them. And if that is the decision that is made, right, now they're gonna reach out to your firm and say, okay, now we want to start uh the process to get these collected, right?

SPEAKER_05: 41:23

I would say so. I would I would think that the the company has to have internal collections process that deal with customer retention. But I my methods of collecting are very aggressive because we go against our customers. So I do have a template letter that I give my companies, uh my clients that they send out internally that tells our clients, look, I'm going to refer this case to Christina, and she this is what she's gonna do if you don't pay me. So that's that's a letter.

SPEAKER_03: 42:00

Yeah, like the warning's line, right?

SPEAKER_05: 42:02

To that letter, then it's going to me, and I'm gonna do what they said though. I was like, Well, I have a question, right?

SPEAKER_04: 42:08

Is that part of in the retention conversation? So, like, if I'm looking at my customers, right, like, and I I I hesitate to use the word threat, but like we're getting to a point where my invoices with this customer are now getting well beyond what they normally are, and I'm I'm really hesitant, but I'm not really ready to say I'm done doing business, right? Would the last step before you take over, right, for me to basically notify my customer that, hey, if this doesn't get resolved, next step is we're going to send these invoices over to a firm for collections.

SPEAKER_05: 42:41

And it has my even before that, it has my web page address and everything, so they'll see my statistics and all of it. So this is what we're going to do if you don't pay.

SPEAKER_02: 42:51

So yeah, I I think, but before right before it gets to Christina, there should be something that uh uh a process where you tell your client, okay, clearly we have an issue. Um, so what we're gonna do rather than continue to create more debt for you, we're gonna place this on hold and we're gonna give you an opportunity to pay. So let's work out a solution and see if we can get an ironclad solution in place. Because if we're really trying to preserve the relationship, as Christina stated, once she gets it, that's the point of no return. There is no relationship after that. If I've gone that far with you, now I don't want to do business, but I'm really, really trying here. So before we get there, we're gonna place things on hold. We're gonna place the credit on hold. We're not gonna do any shipping, but now we gotta focus on you paying. If at that point we're still not getting anywhere, now we're gonna go over to Christina and we're gonna send that letter again. This is what's gonna, this is what's gonna happen. And don't get any response. Now we gotta release the we gotta release the tiger. We gotta release the shark.

SPEAKER_00: 44:05

And Ben, we we've talked about this a lot. We did an entire con uh entire episode on like having hard conversations. And this is one of those hard conversations with a customer because the the reality is um the customer might be in financial trouble because of poor management, right? They could be in trouble because the vendors didn't pay them, they could be in trouble because um a rogue employee internally um wasn't paying invoices and it just looks bad on paper, right? And the way that you approach the conversation, I think, can say a lot. So if you approach it, kind of like you know, Janie said, try to work it out internally. It's like, hey, I I don't I don't want to stop doing business with you guys. I really love servicing um your shipping needs. Uh we're, you know, we're just having issues with you know the the invoicing process. And first of all, try to I I usually try to start at is our process working properly or is that what's causing the issue, right? And then it comes down to like, hey, is there something going on in your end where can we just press pause on um on the credit limit for now and and give you a chance to get caught up? And usually what I have found is in those conversations, they will reveal to you either that um, hey, just being transparent, here's what we're dealing with here. And a lot of times it's I'm waiting on somebody to pay me, right? And I just can't pay you guys right now. And sometimes we've had conversations um with like executive teams and they're just very transparent and they're like, look, we're probably not gonna get paid on this for like another 90 days. Uh, we love working with you guys. We understand wanting to pause for now. Um, we don't want this relationship to go away. And we've said okay to some of those situations. And then we've also kicked ourselves in the butt and wished we didn't say yes to those because somebody convinced us that, oh yeah, the payment's gonna come. But um, regardless, trying to handle it at the at the earliest and lowest level possible to save the customer relationship, I think is an important decision to make because to both of your points, as soon as that's in in Christina's hands, that relationship's done, right? You are at war at this point, and they you know they are never gonna give you another load. And and rightfully so, you you probably don't want to work with them at that point. Anyway, you're happy to turn them over and and and release the demons on them.

SPEAKER_02: 46:16

So what companies need to understand is that the finance department is not just about um uh sending invoices, their job is to track and get paid. And when I say track, that that's the one that I typically see people they're not doing. How how well are we tracking? Are we making sure that we're staying behind? Are we paying attention to um the way they pay their own bills? Are you is your AP following your AR? Are you running out of money because you're paying everybody, but you're not getting paid? So it's it's it's really about tracking the performance in that department, tracking how well you're getting paid, and what activities, what metrics do you have in place to ensure that your people are doing what they're supposed to? Because Christina is is is is awesome. But like I said before, once it gets to her, that there's no return. So, but if you reach that point, then absolutely there's no one better than this one right here.

SPEAKER_04: 47:32

What you said made me laugh because I came into a client the one time and we were going through all this and there were tons of things that were aging, no notes, didn't know what was going on. I was like, okay, like who's staffing the accounting side, right? Like, oh, I have one person, their title is Accounts Receivable Manager, right? And then we had two or three people on invoicing. And I went, okay, like let's schedule a call and see what the situation is, right? And this person literally said, like, yeah, like I keep sending the invoices out. I keep sending them out every week. And I remember saying I was like, I said to the owner of the company after the call, I was like, their title is accounts receivable. Like it's kind of self-explanatory. If your job is accounts receivable and you don't know if money is being received, you're probably missing something, right? And like to me, it kind of sounded obvious, but like when you said that, it made me laugh because I literally pictured this person's face and it was like, well, they eventually let that person go because like that was literally what they were doing was just sending invoices and not doing anything to make sure the money was received, which was literally the title of the position, right? And it seems obvious, but like this is so often overlooked, I think, by owners. Like just because you have someone in that role, like you should at the very least be looking at this every month, if not every week, looking at your aging report and asking these questions, like, what are we doing to make sure the money's been received? Has that been working? And what else can we do? Right, is like for sure one of the big things that are often overlooked in like this whole process.

SPEAKER_02: 49:04

It certainly is. And so often, um, I hate to say it, they have people who really don't understand what that role is. Um, you know, understanding how to manage cash, putting in a system to ensure that you're you're getting paid on time. Um I I it's it's something as simple as having a a task list. What what are your responsibilities? And oftentimes I've met people who their sole job is to just send out invoices. They have absolutely no clue what other responsibilities go with that job. Um, so by the time you get in there, the invoices are so old, you you probably don't have a choice at this point, you know, um over a year old or over two years old, at that point, you you probably do, you definitely need to reach out to Christina because you don't have anything. Um, so if there's anything to teach, it's you know, understanding that that job isn't just sending invoices. Their role is to track and get paid. If you're not getting paid, probably because you're not tracking. And a lot of times, custom uh clients uh that I've run into, if they have an AR problem, if they have a collections problem, it's usually systemic of other processes and and and systems.

SPEAKER_04: 50:33

It's the result, not the cause.

SPEAKER_02: 50:35

Exactly. Symptom totally.

SPEAKER_04: 50:37

It's just the symptom of showing what the underlying cause is.

SPEAKER_00: 50:40

Right. I think a big part of it too is, and this just kind of echoes what you said, is if we're if you're not training your staff properly on what their role is and why it's important, you're doing them a disservice. And you think about it, with all the small businesses out there that have um an AR function as part of their business, um, there's there's millions of them out there, right? When the average American is living paycheck to paycheck and can't manage their own personal finances, as a business owner, if you're not properly training somebody on accounting, you shouldn't assume that they're just going to treat your business any better than they treat their their personal finances, right? So I think that that that education and um continuously in you know having a mentality of improving the processes and improving everyone's level of skill, um, that it that internally uh I think is probably a huge area to improve on. Um I'm curious. So, Jane, you pointed out a lot of mistakes that business owners make internally or businesses make internally when it comes to the error process. I'm curious, Christina, is there common mistakes or issues you find with factoring companies, motor carriers, brokers when it comes to the external uh collections process, either how they go about doing it or what they think their rights are, anything in in that realm?

SPEAKER_05: 52:01

Well, for me, uh the documents speak for themselves. So I I need my carriers and my clients, my factoring companies to have all their documents there for me to be able to collect. Uh the bills of lading have to be there, all the shipping documents uh that's the consigne hopefully signed that they received the load. Uh and if you're servicing uh well sites and I'm going to file a lien against that well site, I'm gonna need the the coordinates of where they they served uh so I can identify who's the operator for that well site. That's very important. Another thing is the statute of limitations. Uh there's uh two statute of limitations issues. Uh, one is that federal law has 18-month statute of limitations, and then state law has different statute of limitations. In Texas, it's four years. We file petitions based on breach of contract, being the contract ability. But we've come across cases where they are trying to uh stand by the 18-month statute of limitations, and I currently have a case in the court of appeals uh with respect to that matter. I had a case in federal court where I prevailed, uh, and the court held that it was a four-year statute of limitations. Uh, but in state courts, uh I I had a court uh decide to the contrary, so now I'm in the court of appeals uh to decide that. Uh but that don't let your invoices go over the 18-month statute of limitations because you're gonna make it more difficult for for the attorney who's gonna go up.

SPEAKER_04: 53:45

And that's the question. The two biggest questions we get are when is too long? Like when is the deadline? What you just answered, right? Is like you want to be doing these things and reaching out inside of a year and a half, inside of 18 months. So 12 to 14 months after everything kind of Janie explained, and like best practices to do this that lead up to there, but that's kind of where you start to get a little riskier, right? So can you speak also to like size, right? Because the other most common thing that comes up is like, okay, it's an$800 invoice, it's a$2,500 invoice, it's maybe a$5,000 invoice. And I think most people's thoughts are it's not worth the hassle of finding an attorney, and attorneys are too expensive to go at something for$5,000 or$1,000, and they just let them sit there, right? So what do you advise people to do as like a dollar amount, not just the timing of like when does it make sense to actually, you know, reach out to you guys to be able to collect on these? Is there a minimum?

SPEAKER_05: 54:51

So I I would say uh if you want me to send a demand letter, uh it's you can you can I would send it for like if it's I would say fifteen hundred dollars, I will send your demand letter. I wouldn't file suit for that. Um but you can go to your local uh JP court, just as a peace court, and you can file that petition. I can give you a draft. And you don't have to have an attorney to go to JP court and you can collect if you have someone that can do that for you in your company and the AR person, go go collect.

SPEAKER_04: 55:28

What does that can you break it as as Nate would say, like Barney style, like 101 level? How does somebody find where that court is locally? What would they do? Like what would that look like kind of step by step?

SPEAKER_05: 55:39

Uh Justice of the Peace court court and you go to your local justice justice of the peace and you file it.

SPEAKER_04: 55:49

What do they need to take with them? Like what documents would they take?

SPEAKER_05: 55:52

I I do have like a standard petition, at least for Texas, uh that's just the elements of the cost of action, and you just put in the amount and sign at the bottom.

SPEAKER_04: 56:05

You just take it to the the Justice of Peace Court and you just say, I want to file this, and somebody there is gonna help you file it, and then that starts the process.

SPEAKER_01: 56:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 56:15

So you hit on something before too, Christina, that I want to elaborate on. You mentioned having all your paperwork in order, and I can't reiterate enough how important this is in our business in general. Um, but especially when it comes down to you know uh a collections process where we've got to prove uh what we're claiming is owed to us and that it's passed due. So one of the things that we as a best practice we usually recommend is um somewhere within your software, your transportation management system, TMS, um, hopefully you can image documents assigned to a specific load, right? So things like your common carrier paperwork is gonna be the carrier's invoice, a signed bill of lading, and maybe a rate confirmation, right? Customer documents, you might have a contract with them, you might have a credit application that states their terms, you're gonna have an invoice per load that states the due dates and all of that. And the one that I'm curious on your feedback on is should a I usually recommend having in writing the agreed upon rate that the customer is going to pay the broker or whoever the trucking company, whatever the case might be, right? That load tender or an email. Um, but a lot of times, you know, folks, you know, we'll have a customer short pay and they're like, I never agreed to that, you know, and then we talk to the broker and they're like, Yeah, I don't have like an email. We talked about it on the phone, but I know that they agreed to this amount. Can you talk to the, you know, that the rate being agreed to ahead of time, does that need to be in writing for it to go uh to hold up in a collections process?

SPEAKER_05: 57:53

Well, it makes it easier if you have that Raycon and you have that exchange that the Raycon was received and they're hauling because they don't have to sign the Raycon. You send them the Raycon and they're if they're hauling, you're assuming that they approved that they accepted your offer, and that's the Raycon. So you have it there. Uh, so an additional email there wouldn't be necessary.

SPEAKER_00: 58:19

Uh how about the shipper directly to a broker, though? So a lot of times a shipper doesn't send a rate confirmation to a broker. Okay. The broker will send it to a carrier. So you might get a load tender or an email asking for a quote, you respond and they agree to it. But sometimes shipper might just call Ben's brokerage and say, Hey, can you get this load moved? And Ben's like, Yeah, I can do it for$1,200. Okay, cool, send the truck. And there's no um, I'm not saying Ben would do that because Ben would probably email back and say, Hey, just confirming$1,200, we'll have a truck sent in, blah, blah, blah. But for a broker that, you know, doesn't get that electronically or in any kind of um recorded, whether it's a recorded phone call or an email or an official load tender that was emailed over in PDF, is that a um I mean, I would imagine it's a best practice that I always recommend, but is it will would it cause or would it prevent the collections process if it was never agreed on in paper?

SPEAKER_05: 59:17

It does not prevent the collections process, but if you don't have anything in writing, then the problem is, is there an offer and an acceptance? And what was that offer and acceptance? So it's gonna be an issue of credibility and lack of of having that set number, the court's gonna impose what an equity that low would cost. Like what is what is the standard of the market for that?

SPEAKER_00: 59:44

Right. So if you try to, yeah, like if a broker um tries to say, like, yeah, this was you owe us two thousand dollars, and they're like, we never agreed to that, the court could say, like, no, they don't owe you two thousand dollars. That's that's not a um that's not a fair market value. Fair market value for that, that you know. So that that's who ends up making the decision. My uh my advice to everyone is you don't want that.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:07

Exactly. Put it in right in.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:10

It's kind of like if someone doesn't have a will and the courts decide what happens with their assets when they die, right? Like you you want to be able to decide while you're alive what happens. The same thing. My my guidance all to brokers out there is when you're talking with a customer, even if you agree over the phone, have that email exchange afterward where you know you're sending, hey, just confirming this load is gonna go for uh um for$2,000. Here's the motor carrier's information that we're gonna be sending in there. You can loop it all into one just cover your butt email that's got the rate, the load information, et cetera. Best case scenario, have a load tender from your customer, right? Where they send you over the rate, the load details, and you're accepting it. But um, yeah, I I definitely I I I can't imagine it's a simple or painless process if you're trying to go off of verbal credibility that we agreed to something versus here's hard evidence on paper or electronically of what was agreed to, when the invoice was sent, when it was due, and proof that it hasn't been paid. Right. Those that's gonna obviously having your ducks in a row, having your your documentation feels like it's paramount um to making this process uh successful.

SPEAKER_04: 1:01:19

The other one that I want to make sure we cover, because I'd say this is probably one of the other more common ones for brokers, right? So in the example, Nate's my customer. Nate, I ran a hundred loads for him in the past 30 days, and Nate owes me$100,000. Each load was call it$1,000, right? And then today, the load delivering for Nate has a claim. And that claim is for$100,000. So, us as brokers, like we don't have cargo insurance. It goes on the trucking company. We verify that they have cargo insurance when we hired them. Their insurance should make Nate whole for the$100,000 in loss to that product today, right? It's not, it's I'd say it's pretty common though for that carrier's insurance company to occasionally deny that claim and say we or just take six months to handle it, right? Or take six months, and there's like, hey, we'll just go with the scenario of like the the cargo claim gets denied. What is really common for freight brokers is Nate goes, Well, I owe you$100,000 right now anyway. So I'm just not going to pay you any of these other invoices until. Until you figure out a way to get us paid for that claim, right? And I'd say like that's the most common one we kind of see as brokers, where shippers just withhold unrelated invoices in the dollar amount of a claim until that's paid, right? But I want you to kind of share with anybody with like, let's say there's no contract in place with the shipper and the broker, right? So, like in those scenarios, as a brokerage owner, right? Like, what would we have the ability to do in those? Because like we've been told companies aren't allowed to withhold unrelated invoices because one has a claim on it. But then the next question always comes up of like, okay, well, like how much does it cost to go and recoup the money I'm owed on the hundred grand? How long does it take? Can you shed some light on like for brokerages out there? What should they do or like best practice in these scenarios? Well, the brokerage did everything they were supposed to, verified the carrier's insurance, right? Carrier ran the load, carrier was negligent and related to the claim, but their insurance doesn't cover it for a number of reasons, right? What would a brokerage do in that scenario? Or what would you do to help them?

SPEAKER_05: 1:03:39

Okay, so it's important that you mention that there isn't a contract because usually when there's a contract, the contract does allow you to do that setup.

SPEAKER_04: 1:03:49

Yes, right. So because I've seen both. One of the contracts said we have the ability to withhold unrelated invoices due to a claim. One did not have a contract, right? So in the one, it was what it was because we were on the hook, right? So I'm really glad you pointed that out because the other thing that was important was that the brokerage has that in their contract with their carriers of the ability to withhold funds for unrelated invoices due to an unpaid claim.

SPEAKER_05: 1:04:24

Exactly. Yes. Uh, but if there is no contract, you're totally right. They cannot withhold that payment. And same thing. Uh, we will go after the customers for those unrelated invoices, and they're gonna say, but I paid you. No, but I have a cargo claim with respect to another invoice. Well, that's not my problem. And you can't withhold that payment because that load was delivered, was delivered by this carrier, and that carrier got paid by the broker, and now the broker's gonna step into the shoes of the carrier and we're gonna collect.

SPEAKER_04: 1:04:56

So, and then again, like in practice, what we see is the brokerage goes, like, we don't know what to do. And as they're figuring it out, all the other carriers start filing on their bond because they're like, hey, we're owed money. And the broker's like, Well, I didn't get paid and I can't pay them. So the brokerage is in this position of like, our credit is getting destroyed because of what the shipper's doing with one load, right? So the question that we get often is like, but like one, how much does it cost to recoup that right? And I you outlined there's two different ways that you guys can kind of approach this, right? So and at what number does that start to make sense for a brokerage to reach out to your firm to get assistance with this?

SPEAKER_05: 1:05:39

If your brokerage authority is is going to take and be taken away because you're getting the carriers filing against your bond, you you better get get me to work on that case really quickly because you're not gonna be able to operate. Either that or you have to pay that carrier from your own pocket and just wait because they they're gonna cancel your brokerage authority. You you're not gonna have a bond. So that's definitely if you're in that position, you you have to contact me quickly.

SPEAKER_04: 1:06:11

And then do you does it this is are these typically go like contingency based or like hourly based?

SPEAKER_05: 1:06:16

Whichever the client prefers. So it's it's up to the client. Uh but am I going to spend if it's a hundred thousand dollar claim, and I am I gonna spend that much time on my hourly basis to get to that three 33%? I don't think so. So they're gonna be better off paying me by the hour.

SPEAKER_04: 1:06:38

So the question then is is that like a retainer where the client pays up front or no?

SPEAKER_05: 1:06:44

Okay, I I do it whatever I collect, I'll take whatever our hourly wages I have.

SPEAKER_04: 1:06:49

And and I think that's really important for the audience to understand is because like the question we'll get from the brokerage owner is like, I already can't pay these carriers, and now you're telling me to go hire an attorney. My problem is I don't have money. So how do I how do I go and get somebody or pay somebody to help me solve the problem when my problem is they're not paying me, right? And I think what you said is really important is that like as the brokerage owner, when they reach out to your firm, they're not spending the money up front for you to get the customer to pay them what they're owed. Whether it's an hourly rate or contingency, you're going to get the customer to pay the brokerage and then you're gonna get paid, which means brokers have the ability to use you as a resource to solve these things, even though the problem inherently is that they don't have the money they need in the first place.

SPEAKER_05: 1:07:39

Exactly. Yes, yes, because I'm so confident, like most of attorneys do require a retainer, but I'm so confident that I'm gonna collect for you that I don't need a retainer because I am going to collect and I will get my money from whatever I that's the real muscle right there.

SPEAKER_00: 1:07:54

I love it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:07:55

Skin in the game, right?

SPEAKER_00: 1:07:57

Yeah, exactly. Well, cool. Um, Ben, you have any other questions on this?

SPEAKER_04: 1:08:05

I know we're gonna be doing a couple more episodes. I think this is a really good starting point to kind of frame like best practices, what to do to be managing your AR, what to do when it gets to that point, who to reach out to, and also like how that business decision can be thought through, which I think is really important that we kind of added that in there because like I think that's where I think that's where a lot of companies that could and should use you as a resource don't, because they just don't know how that process works, don't know how and who to call, and what and when they're gonna be paying money or getting money back, right? And all these unknowns basically end up with what kind of Janie said of like they just do nothing, right? And then they just kind of let them age, and then nothing happens at all instead of being proactive and actually getting these things addressed and getting this money into the business that it's owed it, right?

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:03

Yep, that's right. So if there's anybody that can do it, it's it's that young lady, Miss Christina.

SPEAKER_00: 1:09:10

Love it, love it. So uh Christina, freight collection solutions, um state of Texas. Can you just for for the folks listening out there, if they want to learn more, and again, you'll be back on the show again next month. We're gonna have a little bit of a different conversation. Um how do they reach out to you? What what is a good obviously you mentioned state of Texas? What if someone's not in Texas? Can you help refer them out? Can you kind of talk through if someone wants to learn more what they what they should do?

SPEAKER_05: 1:09:40

Uh yes. So as I mentioned before, I do uh collections for uh Baxter Bailey and associates, so they are nationwide. So if I can collect from for you uh without filing suit, then I would send you over to them and they have attorneys all over uh the US. So they would be able to collect for you on on a particular state. But I can handle pre pre-suit from Texas. That's not gonna be an issue.

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:13

Perfect. Awesome. We'll put a uh a link to your your website and LinkedIn and all the good stuff in the show notes. So please, if you're interested, make sure to to click that link, get in touch with Christina, and Janie will include your uh your information in there as well. Um Janie, any anything you want to wrap up with or any final thoughts on your end?

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:36

Um the only thing I would say is if you go to your balance sheet today and you see that there is enough money in that bucket that could get some bills paid, buy another piece of equipment, get some equipment required.

SPEAKER_01: 1:10:55

That's work that you have done. You have earned that money it's time to get in. And if you have exhausted all of your internal uh uh controls or processes, then the next step would be to reach out for counseling.

SPEAKER_00: 1:11:15

That's perfect. It's opportunity. This is this is literally it's your money, right? Go get it. So Christina anything you want to close up with here.

SPEAKER_05: 1:11:26

Uh just what you're right. You if the beauty of being able to collect freight charges is that you can you have multiple areas of recovery. Don't sit on that and let your bills not get paid. You you don't need to go after the person that directly hired you. You can go against the person that you left the love with and the one that you picked up. So know your rights and enforce them and get paid.

SPEAKER_00: 1:11:54

Absolutely. Well, good stuff. Thanks both of you for being on here. We definitely look forward to um next month having another conversation and and uh continuing this. So, Ben, final thoughts on your end.

SPEAKER_04: 1:12:08

Whether you believe you can or believe you can't, you're right.

SPEAKER_00: 1:12:12

And until next time, I know we skipped our sports segment, but go, Bills. That's right.